Guild Wars 2 to have simpler skills? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Aera · Jun 28, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

All I hope is PvP+jumping=something good. I really do. Look at WoW PvP, jumping is one of the factors which makes it terrible.

refer · Jun 28, 2009, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

All I hope is PvP+jumping=something good. I really do. Look at WoW PvP, jumping is one of the factors which makes it terrible.

Jumping + activating skills seems horrible to me. I can just picture FA where everybody is standing in place and jumping for skills... that will look so stupid and I can also picture.

"Oops, messed the skill up since I didn't jump first!"
"I only need 3 more jumps till I can use this skill!"
"That Mesmer prevents me from jumping! Now I can't activate skills!"
"That Mesmer makes me jump so fast I can't activate skills in time!"
"That Necro slowed down my jumping speed!"

Tender Wolf · Jun 28, 2009, 06:12 AM // 06:12

I have no idea, due to the lack of information that's been given regarding Guild Wars 2. Personally I'm fine with the current amount of skills in game and how you just have to stand still to fight. It's uber annoying in WoW when you have to physicall turn to face the direction the enemy's in whereas Guild Wars does it for you. Makes it easy for multitaskers like me to still accomplish things in the game while doing other things.

The one thing I don't like about the current skill system is the limit of only 8 skills. One more elite would be ncie too but I could see why they wouldn't do it. I hope the environment doesn't effect the way skills work in Guild Wars 2, but like I said, there is no information yet so it's hard to tell.

Megas XLR · Jun 28, 2009, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

The skill system will be modified. There will be fewer, less complex skills which may behave differently in different situations, such as if the character is jumping or is surrounded by monsters. A system similar to the limited 8 skill system will be used.

I like the idea of skills being affected if you're standing in water, surrounded by monsters, or etc... I agree that having to jump for a certain effect will just add a layer of frustration instead a layer of depth. How often can you jump, how much of a time window do you have, and where do I have to keep my finger to spam it? I think they have the right idea with the other stuff though.

SUPERMAN` · Jun 28, 2009, 06:26 AM // 06:26

We'll see in about 6 years or so.

refer · Jun 28, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas XLR

I like the idea of skills being affected if you're standing in water, surrounded by monsters, or etc... I agree that having to jump for a certain effect will just add a layer of frustration instead a layer of depth. How often can you jump, how much of a time window do you have, and where do I have to keep my finger to spam it? I think they have the right idea with the other stuff though.

Environment effects would be really cool I think but horrible for balancing. Would certain maps be prejudice to certain play styles? Would the map with water have lots of it or a little? Would the water come and go? Where would these bonuses be placed - changing areas or static locations? And if they were in static locations, would they be tactically dangerous? And how many people could stand in water at once? And could be there other areas that are offensive, such as water that powers up water magic if you're in it? Would there be skills to alter the environment further? And what about FA/JQ? Those places don't' change maps so if they had environmental effects it would limit what people could play effectively (and no, I don't want an AB style switch). I think they are unleashing a can of worms with environmental effects.

1337 H4X · Jun 28, 2009, 06:55 AM // 06:55

I hope if someone jumps and you run into them they fall over ><

Tender Wolf · Jun 28, 2009, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1337 H4X

I hope if someone jumps and you run into them they fall over ><

lol That would be hilarious. I'd film it.

ssheretic · Jun 28, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Perhaps skills like "Backbreaker" will be more effective if you jump first. I don't think they will make skills like "meteor shower" cast better while jumping.

Master Ketsu · Jun 28, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08

It all comes down to implementation. An old sleeper hit Xbox game "Phantom dust" has gameplay very similar to both GW1 and what they describe for GW2, and the battle system in that game is absolutely brilliant. Likewise, there are a lot of MMO's out there that already have skills which take different effects in different environment's, and their battle systems are crap.

Arguing\complaining about a game we have yet to even see in game screenshots of is retarded.

The only thing that can be reasonably complained about GW2 is the possibility that release pushbacks/lack of further information way passed the date of promise is solely due to NCsoft greed of not wanting to "compete with itself" with Aion.

4thVariety · Jun 28, 2009, 08:16 AM // 08:16

I doubt a reduction of skills will make PvP more accessible, especially when the number of variables to consider while using them is rising quickly.

Since GW players can respec their character at all times, there is nothing wrong with GW2 making more use of that and/or demanding from the player to really make use of that feature. There is nothing gained by only having watered down enemies that can be struck down by any arbitrary combination of skills.

zwei2stein · Jun 28, 2009, 09:50 AM // 09:50

It obvious that anet and pretty much everyone saw this:

If you give people choice, they will not choose wisely and end up sucking and running dumb stuff.

There are about ~ 20 monk skills that make red bars go up on single target, but about only 4 being any good copared to rest. There is whooping 80% chance someone will choose of the other 16 gimping himself in process.

If ther are only one or two skills that makes red bars go up, you solved problem of monks choosing sucky bar because they can not choose to have bad bar.

And that is same for all the classes.

Longasc · Jun 28, 2009, 11:01 AM // 11:01

The issue is that our limited GW2 information is mainly from the PC Gamer article of September 2007.

We do not even know if the 8 skills bar system is going to stay, how the larger, more "open" instances will work. We know jack shit about the game, and their vision and ideas can have changed considerably.

We know nothing. And we are left in the dark about GW2, no new information for ages by now.

AmbientMelody · Jun 28, 2009, 11:12 AM // 11:12

More =/= better, that's a first lesson Anet has been taught. I still think Prop had best balance and most interesting gameplay with core classes and 300+ skills. GW2 doesn't need more than that, anything above this number only multiplies number of useless skills, makes balancing harder and creates gimmick builds and classes.

Sleeper Service · Jun 28, 2009, 11:41 AM // 11:41

dumbing things down is the only way to appeal to the most people while making them feel smarter.

Nemesis of God · Jun 28, 2009, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

Jumping + activating skills seems horrible to me. I can just picture FA where everybody is standing in place and jumping for skills... that will look so stupid and I can also picture.

"Oops, messed the skill up since I didn't jump first!"
"I only need 3 more jumps till I can use this skill!"
"That Mesmer prevents me from jumping! Now I can't activate skills!"
"That Mesmer makes me jump so fast I can't activate skills in time!"
"That Necro slowed down my jumping speed!"

I lolled.
But hey, that is good idea. In Mount & Blade, damage depends not only from the attacker, but from defenders speed to. For example if:

Charr stays at same place + attacker stays at same place and hits.

= less damage then

Charr runs towards you + attacker runs towards charr and hits him.

slowerpoke · Jun 28, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

physics in combat would be interesting. its pretty much the norm with most games these days and adds a realistic feel to interactions.

body blocking that could force your opponent back, or even interrupt a spell caster. better death animations and interaction with the environment.

Brett Kuntz · Jun 28, 2009, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Complex Situational skills are harder to balance, and in most cases, impossible to balance. They also add an unnecessary complexity to the game, increase the learning curve, and are a put-off to casual & new players.

If you create a skill that can only be used in one situation, and that situation rarely arises, then you have to make the skill extremely over-powered to compensate for the rarity of the situation. If you don't do this, then no one will use the skill. So you can either have A) A balanced skill nobody uses because the situation rarely arises or B) An over-powered skill people use sometimes because in rare situations you become extremely powerful.

RPG games do not need Complex Situational skills to be fun. Sure, there are some games with CS skills that are successful, but this does not mean you need CS skills to be successful, and this does not mean you will be unsuccessful if you do not have them.

To make a fun and balanced RPG game, you do need to use Simple Non-Situational skills that are largely free of any Skill Description. The Description may just read "Deals 10 Fire Damage" or "Deals 10 Physical Damage", very simple, no situations.

Jarus · Jun 28, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis of God

I lolled.
But hey, that is good idea. In Mount & Blade, damage depends not only from the attacker, but from defenders speed to. For example if:

Charr stays at same place + attacker stays at same place and hits.

= less damage then

Charr runs towards you + attacker runs towards charr and hits him.

Yeah, that's all great, but I don't really want an online action game, I want a CORPG.

Gigashadow · Jun 28, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

The issue is that our limited GW2 information is mainly from the PC Gamer article of September 2007.

We do not even know if the 8 skills bar system is going to stay, how the larger, more "open" instances will work. We know jack shit about the game, and their vision and ideas can have changed considerably.

We know nothing. And we are left in the dark about GW2, no new information for ages by now.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get to have 10 skills on our bar this time around. Also, it might be different for different formats of the game; e.g. 12+ for PvE or World vs World PvP formats, but only 8 or 10 for GvG (where it is more important to be able to quickly understand everything the other team has).

I have my doubts about skills doing different things depending on whether you're running or jumping. That doesn't sound like a good idea at all. I`m not a big fan of combo skills in MMOs in general.

Jun 28, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08	#30
Master Ketsu Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2006 Location: middle of nowhere Guild: Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy] Profession: R/	It all comes down to implementation. An old sleeper hit Xbox game "Phantom dust" has gameplay very similar to both GW1 and what they describe for GW2, and the battle system in that game is absolutely brilliant. Likewise, there are a lot of MMO's out there that already have skills which take different effects in different environment's, and their battle systems are crap. Arguing\complaining about a game we have yet to even see in game screenshots of is retarded. The only thing that can be reasonably complained about GW2 is the possibility that release pushbacks/lack of further information way passed the date of promise is solely due to NCsoft greed of not wanting to "compete with itself" with Aion. Last edited by Master Ketsu; Jun 28, 2009 at 08:13 AM // 08:13..

Jun 28, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46	#21
Aera Forge Runner Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Galactic President Superstar Mc [awsm] Profession: E/	All I hope is PvP+jumping=something good. I really do. Look at WoW PvP, jumping is one of the factors which makes it terrible.

Jun 28, 2009, 06:12 AM // 06:12	#23
Tender Wolf Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona Guild: The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN] Profession: R/	I have no idea, due to the lack of information that's been given regarding Guild Wars 2. Personally I'm fine with the current amount of skills in game and how you just have to stand still to fight. It's uber annoying in WoW when you have to physicall turn to face the direction the enemy's in whereas Guild Wars does it for you. Makes it easy for multitaskers like me to still accomplish things in the game while doing other things. The one thing I don't like about the current skill system is the limit of only 8 skills. One more elite would be ncie too but I could see why they wouldn't do it. I hope the environment doesn't effect the way skills work in Guild Wars 2, but like I said, there is no information yet so it's hard to tell.

Jun 28, 2009, 06:26 AM // 06:26	#25
SUPERMAN` Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2009	We'll see in about 6 years or so.

Jun 28, 2009, 06:55 AM // 06:55	#27
1337 H4X Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2009 Guild: SNOW	I hope if someone jumps and you run into them they fall over ><

Jun 28, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46	#29
ssheretic Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Andijk Guild: Heretic's Brotherhood Profession: A/	Perhaps skills like "Backbreaker" will be more effective if you jump first. I don't think they will make skills like "meteor shower" cast better while jumping.

Jun 28, 2009, 08:16 AM // 08:16	#31
4thVariety Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: European Union Guild: ADL Profession: E/	I doubt a reduction of skills will make PvP more accessible, especially when the number of variables to consider while using them is rising quickly. Since GW players can respec their character at all times, there is nothing wrong with GW2 making more use of that and/or demanding from the player to really make use of that feature. There is nothing gained by only having watered down enemies that can be struck down by any arbitrary combination of skills.

Jun 28, 2009, 09:50 AM // 09:50	#32
zwei2stein Grotto Attendant Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Europe Guild: The German Order [GER] Profession: N/	It obvious that anet and pretty much everyone saw this: If you give people choice, they will not choose wisely and end up sucking and running dumb stuff. There are about ~ 20 monk skills that make red bars go up on single target, but about only 4 being any good copared to rest. There is whooping 80% chance someone will choose of the other 16 gimping himself in process. If ther are only one or two skills that makes red bars go up, you solved problem of monks choosing sucky bar because they can not choose to have bad bar. And that is same for all the classes.

Jun 28, 2009, 11:01 AM // 11:01	#33
Longasc Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005	The issue is that our limited GW2 information is mainly from the PC Gamer article of September 2007. We do not even know if the 8 skills bar system is going to stay, how the larger, more "open" instances will work. We know jack shit about the game, and their vision and ideas can have changed considerably. We know nothing. And we are left in the dark about GW2, no new information for ages by now.

Jun 28, 2009, 11:12 AM // 11:12	#34
AmbientMelody Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Poland Guild: N/A	More =/= better, that's a first lesson Anet has been taught. I still think Prop had best balance and most interesting gameplay with core classes and 300+ skills. GW2 doesn't need more than that, anything above this number only multiplies number of useless skills, makes balancing harder and creates gimmick builds and classes.

Jun 28, 2009, 11:41 AM // 11:41	#35
Sleeper Service Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: CULT	dumbing things down is the only way to appeal to the most people while making them feel smarter.

Jun 28, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19	#37
slowerpoke Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cuba	physics in combat would be interesting. its pretty much the norm with most games these days and adds a realistic feel to interactions. body blocking that could force your opponent back, or even interrupt a spell caster. better death animations and interaction with the environment.

Jun 28, 2009, 02:46 PM // 14:46	#38
Brett Kuntz Core Guru Join Date: Feb 2005	Complex Situational skills are harder to balance, and in most cases, impossible to balance. They also add an unnecessary complexity to the game, increase the learning curve, and are a put-off to casual & new players. If you create a skill that can only be used in one situation, and that situation rarely arises, then you have to make the skill extremely over-powered to compensate for the rarity of the situation. If you don't do this, then no one will use the skill. So you can either have A) A balanced skill nobody uses because the situation rarely arises or B) An over-powered skill people use sometimes because in rare situations you become extremely powerful. RPG games do not need Complex Situational skills to be fun. Sure, there are some games with CS skills that are successful, but this does not mean you need CS skills to be successful, and this does not mean you will be unsuccessful if you do not have them. To make a fun and balanced RPG game, you do need to use Simple Non-Situational skills that are largely free of any Skill Description. The Description may just read "Deals 10 Fire Damage" or "Deals 10 Physical Damage", very simple, no situations.